19 Therefore write the things which you have seen, and the things which are, and the things which will take place after these things.
– which part are we in? The things that you have seen, the things that are, or the things that will occur meta taute (after these things)?
So we have graduated to section three!
Revelation chapter four
4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.” 2 Immediately I was in the Spirit; and behold, a throne was standing in heaven, and someone was sitting on the throne. 3 And He who was sitting was like a jasper stone and a sardius in appearance; and there was a rainbow around the throne, like an emerald in appearance. 4 Around the throne were twenty-four thrones; and upon the thrones I saw twenty-four elders sitting, clothed in white garments, and golden crowns on their heads.
The Throne and Worship of the Creator
5 Out from the throne *came flashes of lightning and sounds and peals of thunder. And there were seven lamps of fire burning before the throne, which are the seven spirits of God; 6 and before the throne there was something like a sea of glass, like crystal; and in the center and around the throne, four living creatures full of eyes in front and behind. 7 The first living creature was like a lion, the second creature like a calf, the third creature had a face like that of a man, and the fourth creature was like a flying eagle. 8 And the four living creatures, each one of them having six wings, are full of eyes around and within; and day and night they do not cease to say,
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty, who was and who is and who is to come.”
9 And when the living creatures give glory, honor, and thanks to Him who sits on the throne, to Him who lives forever and ever, 10 the twenty-four elders will fall down before Him who sits on the throne, and they will worship Him who lives forever and ever, and will cast their crowns before the throne, saying,
11 “Worthy are You, our Lord and our God, to receive glory and honor and power; for You created all things, and because of Your will they existed, and were created.”
(NASB)
Worship in Heaven
4 Then as I looked, I saw a door standing open in heaven, and the same voice I had heard before spoke to me like a trumpet blast. The voice said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must happen after this.” 2 And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it. 3 The one sitting on the throne was as brilliant as gemstones—like jasper and carnelian. And the glow of an emerald circled his throne like a rainbow. 4 Twenty-four thrones surrounded him, and twenty-four elders sat on them. They were all clothed in white and had gold crowns on their heads. 5 From the throne came flashes of lightning and the rumble of thunder. And in front of the throne were seven torches with burning flames. This is the sevenfold Spirit of God. 6 In front of the throne was a shiny sea of glass, sparkling like crystal.
In the center and around the throne were four living beings, each covered with eyes, front and back. 7 The first of these living beings was like a lion; the second was like an ox; the third had a human face; and the fourth was like an eagle in flight. 8 Each of these living beings had six wings, and their wings were covered all over with eyes, inside and out. Day after day and night after night they keep on saying,
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty—
the one who always was, who is, and who is still to come.”
9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the one sitting on the throne (the one who lives forever and ever), 10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the one sitting on the throne (the one who lives forever and ever). And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,
11 “You are worthy, O Lord our God,
to receive glory and honor and power.
For you created all things,
and they exist because you created what you pleased.”
(NLT)
Let’s take it a few sections at a time and get your comments.
4 After these things I looked, and behold, a door standing open in heaven, and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me, said, “Come up here, and I will show you what must take place after these things.”
- ‘After these things’.
After what things? The things of the churches in chapters 2 and 3. When the business of the churches is complete.
- ‘I looked, and behold, a door standingopen in heaven’
Remember from 3:8? ‘ I know your deeds. Behold, I have put before you an open door which no one can shut,’ Speaks to eternal security of our salvation?
- “Come up here…’
This is a rapture as well. actually the word anaballo is used, but it implies the same action as harpazo.
- ‘and I will show you what must take place after these things.’ Meta taute. After these things, again after what things? The things of the churches.
When the business of the churches on earth is complete, then these things take place afterwards.
The doctrine of a pretribulation rapture is by the preponderance of evidence just like the doctrine of the Trinity. The church, the ekklesia we talked about last week is not mentioned in chapters 4-19.
*Any thoughts on verse one?
4:2 And instantly I was in the Spirit, and I saw a throne in heaven and someone sitting on it. 3 The one sitting on the throne was as brilliant as gemstones—like jasper (Jasper is an opaque rock of virtually any color stemming from the mineral content of the original sediments or ash) and carnelian (pink to brownish red). And the glow of an emerald circled his throne like a rainbow.
(Imagine a green rainbow. Some Bible scholars equate jasper with diamonds).
4:4 Twenty-four thrones surrounded him, and twenty-four elders sat on them. They were all clothed in white and had gold crowns on their heads.
A lot of rock songs use scripture as perverse inspiration. Led Zeppelin’s Cashmere….(Def Leppard – Rock of Ages, Led Zep – Stairway to Heaven, Hallowed Be Thy Name by Iron Maiden, etc.)
Cashmere lyrics ‘I am a traveler of both time and space, to be where I have been. They sit with elders of the gentle race; the world has seldom seen. They talk of days for which they sit and wait, and all will be revealed.’ Kind of a tangential reference to Revelation 4.
Who are these people on the 24 thrones? The 24 elders represent the church, most believe, but let’s investigate first.
How can they represent the church when the lampstands represented the church in chapters 1-3? (Revelation 1:20 and the seven lampstands ARE the seven churches.)
(but then in Revelation 4:5 there are seven torches with burning flames. This is the sevenfold Spirit of God. – so have some figuring to do, are the lamps the churches or the seven spirits of God, or both? Are the seven torches the same as the seven lamps? Are the 24 elders the actual redeemed of the church and the ‘seven lampstands’ are the simply the organized and historical church?
Arguments for who the 24 elders are not…
- Some say probably not angels – wearing crowns and sitting. Angels are usually depicted as standing -Luke 2:11 and Revelation 10:5. But a possible exception in Revelation 14:14-19, where we have someone identified as an angel wearing a crown, sitting on a cloud…(debate – Jesus or an archangel?)
Revelation 14:14 Then I looked, and behold, a white cloud, and sitting on the cloud was one like a son of man, with a golden crown on His head and a sharp sickle in His hand. 15 And another angel came out of the temple, calling out with a loud voice to Him who sat on the cloud, “Put in your sickle and reap, for the hour to reap has come, because the harvest of the earth is ripe.” 16 Then He who sat on the cloud swung His sickle over the earth, and the earth was reaped. (capitalized pronouns imply that this is Christ. But why would Christ take orders from an angel?)
17 And another angel came out of the temple which is in heaven, and he also had a sharp sickle. 18 Then another angel, the one who has power over fire, came out from the altar; and he called with a loud voice to him who had the sharp sickle, saying, “Put in your sharp sickle and gather the clusters from the vine of the earth, because her grapes are ripe.” 19 So the angel swung his sickle to the earth and gathered the clusters from the vine of the earth, and threw them into the great wine press of the wrath of God.
(if an angel is giving a command, it is doubtful that it is Jesus who hears and obeys)
Some say they cannot be OT saints from each tribe + disciples? (Matthias, not Judas)(as John would have seen himself then and would have mentioned it).Some say it can’t be the OT saints because they aren’t resurrected until after the Tribulation according to Daniel 12:2-3
(2 And many of those who sleep in the dust of the ground will awake, these to everlasting life, but the others to disgrace and everlasting [a]contempt. 3 And those who have insight will shine like the glow of the expanse of heaven, and those who lead the many to righteousness, like the stars forever and ever. )
But consider that the deceased OT saints aren’t necessarily corporeal here, but in their spiritual bodies that all the dead saints have (like thirsty, tortured rich man in hell and Lazarus in Abraham’s bosom) (including the deceased of the church) while they wait for their new physical bodies at the appropriate resurrection. (See bottom of Revelation summary for the various resurrections).
*Consider Moses and Elijah with Jesus on the Mount of Transfiguration in Matthew 17:1-8.
[17 Six days later, Jesus *took with Him Peter and James, and his brother John, and *led them up on a high mountain by themselves. 2 And He was transfigured before them; and His face shone like the sun, and His garments became as white as light. 3 And behold, Moses and Elijah appeared to them, talking with Him. 4 Peter responded and said to Jesus, “Lord, it is good that we are here. If You want, I will make three tabernacles here: one for You, one for Moses, and one for Elijah.” 5 While he was still speaking, a bright cloud overshadowed them, and behold, a voice from the cloud said, “This is My beloved Son, with whom I am well pleased; listen to Him!” 6 When the disciples heard this, they fell face down to the ground and were terrified. 7 And Jesus came to them and touched them and said, “Get up, and do not be afraid.” 8 And raising their eyes, they saw no one except Jesus Himself alone.]
Were they spooky ghosts? Or did the disciples want to build them shelters (booths) as if they were physical?
*I DO think the 24 elders most likely represent the redeemed of the church, because of the preponderance of the evidence – they are sitting, singing a song of the redeemed, wearing crowns (which the church is promised), they are not mentioned in Isaiah or Ezekiel’s visions of the throne room of God (Isaiah 6:1-3 and Ezekiel 1:1-28), and if you use a Strong’s concordance, the word ‘church’ (ekklesia or other) is not mentioned in chapters 4-21.
Your thoughts up to verse 5?
Revelation 4:5 From the throne came flashes of lightning and the rumble of thunder. And in front of the throne were seven torches with burning flames. This is the sevenfold Spirit of God.
(Yet in Revelation 1:20 it is said the lampstands are the seven churches. What is the difference?)
(Rev 1:20 As for the mystery of the seven stars which you saw in My right hand, and the seven golden lampstands: the seven stars are the angels of the seven churches, and the seven lampstands are the seven churches.)
*Your thoughts on any of this?
*I don’t believe the Bible contains any contradictions, and I especially believe that John would not have a contradiction within the body of his own book of prophecy. I am confident that there is an explanation here but we may only find out in heaven (1 Corinthians 13:12). None of the commentators I’ve listened to have addressed it. All simply ignore it and move on.
Is there a perhaps a difference in a ‘stand’ that holds a lamp, and the ‘lamp/torch itself’?
Some say there is yet more evidence for a pre-trib rapture here, because the lampstands are present on earth in chapters 2 and 3 yet are in heaven in chapter 4.
Though I definitely believe in a pre-trib rapture, I’m not so sure that this passage can be used as a good argument for the above reasons.
Revelation 4:5.b ‘And in front of the throne were seven torches with burning flames. This is the sevenfold Spirit of God’ .
Remember we talked about this when discussing Revelation 1:4: (See passage in Isaiah 11:2 the seven spirts of God…)
2 The Spirit of the Lord will rest on Him,
The spirit of wisdom and understanding,
The spirit of counsel and strength,
The spirit of knowledge and the fear of the Lord.
Revelation 4: 6 In front of the throne was a shiny sea of glass, sparkling like crystal…
Michael W. Smith song ‘Gather at the Crystal Throne’.
…In the center and around the throne were four living beings, each covered with eyes, front and back.
(Imagine a peacock’s tail, (or imagine if it needed glasses and you were the optometrist.))
Revelation 4:7 The first of these living beings was like a lion; the second was like an ox; the third had a human face; and the fourth was like an eagle in flight. Revelation 4: 8 Each of these living beings had six wings, and their wings were covered all over with eyes, inside and out.
Day after day and night after night they keep on saying,
“Holy, holy, holy is the Lord God, the Almighty—
the one who always was, who is, and who is still to come.” (Just like in Isaiah 6)
Where have we seen similar scenes?
In several places actually.
Isaiah 6:1-3
In the year of King Uzziah’s death I saw the Lord sitting on a throne, lofty and exalted, with the train of His robe filling the temple. 2 Seraphim were standing above Him, each having six wings: with two each covered his face, and with two each covered his feet, and with two each flew. 3 And one called out to another and said,
“Holy, Holy, Holy, is the Lord of armies.
The whole earth is full of His glory.”
*Ezekiel 1 is a bit different than Isaiah’s account for the angels there only have four wings and they don’t call out holy,holy,holy
Ezekiel 1:4-14
4 As I looked, behold, a high wind was coming from the north, a great cloud with fire flashing intermittently and a bright light around it, and in its midst something like gleaming metal in the midst of the fire. 5 And within it there were figures resembling four living beings. And this was their appearance: they had human form. 6 Each of them had four faces and four wings. 7 Their legs were straight and their feet were like a calf’s hoof, and they sparkled like polished bronze. 8 Under their wings on their four sides were human hands. As for the faces and wings of the four of them, 9 their wings touched one another; their faces did not turn when they moved, each went straight forward. 10 As for the form of their faces, each had a human face; all four had the face of a lion on the right and the face of a bull on the left, and ]all four had the face of an eagle. 11 Such were their faces. Their wings were spread out above; each had two touching another being, and two covering their bodies. 12 And each went straight forward; wherever the spirit was about to go, they would go, without turning as they went. 13]In the midst of the living beings there was something that looked like burning coals of fire, like torches moving among the living beings. The fire was bright, and lightning was flashing from the fire. 14 And the living beings ran back and forth like bolts of lightning.
*In Ezekiel each has four faces, in Revelation they appear as four separate beings. But perhaps John only saw the one face that was turned toward him? Some say the angels in Ezekiel are Cherubim as the ones in Isaiah are clearly called Seraphim. The ones in Revelation have six wings as well, but DO have four presentations. Maybe there is a wide assortment of angels, as the non-canonical Book of Enoch implies.
NOTE what was missing in Ezekiel’s and Isaiah’s visions of the throne room of God – the 24 elders!
Also recall from Numbers chapter 2:1-2
2:1 Now the Lord spoke to Moses and to Aaron, saying, 2 “The sons of Israel shall camp, each by his own flag, with the banners of their fathers’ households; they shall camp around the tent of meeting at a distance.
2:34 So the sons of Israel did all this; according to all that the Lord commanded Moses, so they camped by their flags, and so they set out, everyone by his family according to his father’s household.
**The illustrations did not transfer from my notes to the website**
Judah is prophesied to be a lion’s whelp that is originally prey but then becomes an old powerful lion, and the standard is thus associated with a lion. (Gen 49:9)
Reuben means “behold a son” (Reu meaning observe and, Beni-adam means son of Adam) and the is the firstborn of strength and this symbol is that of a man (Gen 29:32)
Ephraim is blessed under Joseph to be full of strength and the traditional standard was that of an Ox or Unicorn (Gen 49:24).
Dan means “judge” and is designated as a serpent, biting the heels of those around them. The original standard would include that of a serpent (Gen 49:16), but due to its association with sin and the tempter in the garden of Eden, Ahiezer, who was later the chief of Dan (Numbers 2:25), changed the standard into an Eagle clutching a snake (according to Jewish Tradition).
Interestingly, if you arrange the camps by the numbers and the description in Numbers 2, you will get this image, which speaks for itself in my opinion.
(Show camp of Israel picture in cross formation)
Also, the gospels as they represent Christ…
Christ is the King of Kings (1 Tim. 6:15), the lion is a symbol of kingship. Christ was the sacrifice for all who will call upon Him; the ox, or calf was one of the animals frequently sacrificed under the old law. Christ became a man to be able to perfect all of us in Him, which is the representation of a man’s face on the living creatures. Christ’s judgment is swift and certain; the aspect / face of the eagle; possibly also reflecting sovereignty and deity.
The book of Matthew presents Christ as the King of the Jews – the Lion of Judah.
Mark presents Jesus as a suffering servant with no pedigree given, the Ox of Ephraim
Luke presents Jesus as the Son of Man, the man is the ensign of Reuben.
John presents Jesus as the Son of God, the Judge – the Eagle of Dan.
**(Hand out ‘The Design of the Gospels’.)**
**Your thoughts on this chapter so far?
Revelation 4:9 Whenever the living beings give glory and honor and thanks to the one sitting on the throne (the one who lives forever and ever), 10 the twenty-four elders fall down and worship the one sitting on the throne (the one who lives forever and ever). And they lay their crowns before the throne and say,
11 “You are worthy, O Lord our God,
to receive glory and honor and power.
For you created all things,
and they exist because you created what you pleased.”
We will also cast our crowns before God – like karate school – we had to bring our trophies back in tribute to the school that taught us.
From Dr. David Jeremiah / Turning Point…
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